From Tequila to Fresh Mixers: Ken MacKenzie’s Journey in the Beverage Industry

Join us in this exciting Maker Manager Money podcast episode as host Kyle Ariel Knowles sits down with Ken McKenzie, the visionary founder and CEO of Fresh Victor. With over 20 years of experience in the spirits and craft beverage industry, Ken shares his journey from co-founding Republic Tequila to launching Fresh Victor, a premium line of all-natural, cold-pressed mixers for cocktails and spirit-free drinks.

Here are three key takeaways from our discussion:

1. The Power of Connection Through Food and Drink 🍹
   Ken emphasized the importance of connecting with people over food and drink. Growing up in a large family, he learned that shared meals create lasting memories and foster relationships. This philosophy is at the heart of Fresh Victor, where the goal is to bring people together through delicious, all-natural mixers. As entrepreneurs, we should remember that our products can create experiences that resonate with our customers on a personal level.
2. Perseverance is Key 💪
   Ken's journey was filled with challenges, from navigating the complexities of the beverage industry to ensuring the freshness of his products. He highlighted that perseverance is essential for any entrepreneur. There were moments when he questioned whether he could continue, but he reminded himself of the bigger picture and the joy his product brings to people. This mindset is crucial for anyone facing obstacles in their entrepreneurial journey.
3. Innovation in the Beverage Space 🥂
   With the rise of non-alcoholic and low-alcohol drinks, Ken pointed out a significant shift in consumer preferences. He believes crafting non-alcoholic drinks can be as complex and valuable as traditional cocktails. This opens up a world of opportunities for innovation in the beverage industry. As entrepreneurs, we should be aware of these trends and be ready to adapt our offerings to meet the evolving needs of our customers.

In this episode, you'll learn about:

• The inspiration behind Fresh Victor and its unique flavors, including the award-winning grapefruit and sea salt and cactus pear and pomegranate.
• Ken's philosophy is about connecting people through food and drink and how it shapes the culture of hospitality.
• The challenges of creating fresh mixers and the importance of maintaining quality and shelf life.
• Insights into the evolving landscape of non-alcoholic beverages and the growing demand for mocktails.
• Ken's journey of perseverance and the lessons he's learned along the way.

Whether you're a beverage enthusiast, an aspiring entrepreneur, or simply curious about the world of mixers, this episode is packed with valuable insights and inspiration. Don't forget to check out Fresh Victor's website for delicious cocktail and mocktail recipes!

LINKS

• Follow Ken on LinkedIn
• Fresh Victor Website
• Follow Kyle on LinkedIn

Transcript

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Hello there, welcome to the Maker Manager Money podcast. My name is Kyle Ariel Knowles and today's guest is Ken MacKenzie Ken is the visionary founder and CEO of Fresh Victor, a premium line of all-natural, cold-pressed, refrigerated mixers for effortlessly delicious cocktails, low alcohol, and spirit-free drinks. With over 20 years of experience in the creation, import, and distribution of spirits and craft beverages, Ken is a successful serial entrepreneur with a rich history in the industry. Before launching Fresh Victor, Ken co-founded Republic Tequila and Republic Spirit Blends. His impressive career also includes the import, development, and launch of unique spirits like Onyx coffee liquors and his highly demanded 100% agave tequila brand, Amate. Ken is a frequent and respected speaker at high-profile industry events, educating the beverage market and hospitality industry, on 100% Agave Tequila. His Republic and Amate Tequila brands have garnered over 15 top industry accolades, including recognition from Wine Enthusiast Magazine and numerous medals at the San Francisco World Spirits Competition and Denver International Spirits Competition. Welcome to Make Your Manager Money, Ken.

Ken MacKenzie: Thank you so much for having me on, Kyle. I really appreciate it.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: When I put the intro together, I thought, wow, there must be some awards for Fresh Victor right now, too. Have you received any awards?

Ken MacKenzie: Yeah, we've been really fortunate in the sense, especially here at home in the Bay Area, with the San Francisco World Spirits Competition, we've been successful with eight of our nine flavors winning double gold and two of them winning best in show.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Oh, wow. Okay. So you have nine flavors now. I originally thought you had seven. You've come out with two more.

Ken MacKenzie: We have nine now. What are the two new ones? Grapefruit and sea salt, which won best in show as well as the strawberry and lemon. Okay.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: I think I got those. I can't remember. Maybe I did get all nine. So I was going to tell you, thanks so much for shipping some of those fresh Victor samples out. My family had a blast a few weekends ago trying all of the different flavors. And obviously you have some really unique ones like pineapple and ginger root and jalapeno and lime. My favorite, my personal favorite is, and you're going to have to tell me what your personal favorite is, but was the cactus pear and pomegranate. And what's your favorite?

Ken MacKenzie: So the cactus pear and pomegranate, I have to be careful with at home because if my daughters have access to the fridge, it will deplete very quickly.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Okay.

Ken MacKenzie: Yeah, I'm kind of a purist at heart. And I think that simplicity, there's some beauty in simplicity. And so for me, the Mexican lime and agave, just as a base, just that hit a lime. and kind of how it is balanced against sparkling water or just kind of using it almost like a soft drink is too easy and so that's really kind of my go-to.

Ken MacKenzie: So for me, the grapefruit and sea salt was a close second of my favorites, but my whole family loved the Mexican lime and agave, exactly what you're talking about. And we were using sparkling water and we just had so much fun getting together and just trying these. And I was going to tell you that the strawberry and lemon and the three citrus and mint leaf was a close second if my whole family was voting. But there are some awesome ones in there. And that's so cool that you have nine total mixers now. And I was going to ask you, I love interviewing hospitality. business founders and business owners. And you kind of summed it up in this in this quote, I'm just going to quote you, you say, when you can connect with people over food and drink, that's the best thing you can possibly do in life. And would you want to talk about that a little bit?

Ken MacKenzie: Yeah, I can expatiate on that. I think that growing up in a large family, you associate some of the best times, whether it's the holidays or whether it's Sunday night family dinners or whatever it is, with food and drink. Whether it was my grandparents on either side of the family cooking from scratch or my folks or uncles and aunts or cousins, It brought us all together in the same place. And whether we had seen each other the weekend before, or we hadn't seen each other for a year, it was really nice to come together and kind of break bread, if you will. And so that was kind of ingrained in my DNA is, you know, what, what makes people happy? What makes people laugh and smile? What do people like to share? And throughout time, it feels like we've really shared recipes. We really share, hey, you got to try this. I had this last week. It was amazing. Go to this place. And so for me, really the kind of challenge or the art in what one can do is really predicated on bringing these people together and making them happy.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: And that's why you always from a young age wanted to do something that would bring people together.

Ken MacKenzie: Yeah, it just, it represented joy to me that, you know, if there, if you could do something well, or, you know, better than you're used to, then it's something that people can talk about, you know, saying, Hey, this was really good, or this was unique or different, or, you know, Hey, I want to share this with you. And when you get people talking, I think that's one of the best things in life when people dialogue, you know, it really breaks down the walls of, Hey, I'm too busy. or, hey, I don't agree with you on this or that or anything else. We can all agree that we love good food and drink.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: That's correct. And I'm always a big proponent of, you know, when you talk about culture in a company, culture in a corporate setting, culture in a federal or state department or anything like that, really that culture is developed when you do Sit down and break bread like you said I mean when you that's when you connect that's when real stories are told and you learn about people. A lot of times people have this idea that you can build a culture just while you're all working you can have a team meeting and that builds culture but I don't think it does.

Ken MacKenzie: I really do believe in my heart of hearts that it's the most elementary or basic element. You know, these are things that we all do unconditionally. We have to do it, but we've all iterated on it to the degree of we know what we like, we know what we're comfortable with. And when people bring us a little bit out of the comfort zone, whether it's like jalapeno and lime or whether it's like, you know, whatever, it's like, hey, wow, you just showed me something new and now I want to show somebody else. And that's the exciting part of hospitality for me is that when you have something that is fresh and consistent and something for everyone, right? That's another facet of this Kyle really for me is that over time. and I'm a bit older now, I started out a long time ago. People over the course of time have stopped drinking, whether it's just from getting older for health reasons, there's a myriad of different reasons to do so, but I always felt like people were relegated to a can of Coca-Cola or a bottle of water, like there wasn't a whole lot of in-between space. And for me with food and drink, it should be nothing but in between space. And so it's really rewarding to have a product that you can just as easily mix with sparkling water for low-cal soft drink, water for agua fresca, or even just a soft drink itself to see how you like to drink it and feel like you're drinking the exact same thing that everybody else is with spirits.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Yeah, that's awesome. Then you're not the odd person out at the bar, you know, holding something that obviously looks like a Coke or something like that. And you're, you're drinking, you know, something that, you know, brings you together, and you're trying the same kind of mixers and things like that. Let's talk about your, your journey before Fresh Victor, then you were a consultant for a while to other beverage companies. Is that is that how you sort of got into the business?

Ken MacKenzie: Yeah, I got well, it was kind of a simple love story, really. And which is things, I suppose all good things start this way. But I ended up following a girl down to Guadalajara, Mexico, and was looking for a reason to stay. And you know, my folks had always taught me, if you're going to do something, is somebody already doing it? Or are they potentially doing it better than you can? And that can often be a hard reflection in the mirror, because I got to tell you, Guadalajara being the second largest city in Mexico, there was a lot of stuff being done, and it was being done very well. And so, interestingly enough, since it was the mid-1990s, what I did notice was a stark contrast between how people perceive tequila in Northern California where I grew up in the Bay Area versus how it was actually consumed in the heartland where it was actually produced. And I came to find out very quickly that it was one of the most epicurean spirits on earth. It was extremely complex. It was akin to cognac in the sense that it had denomination of origin, that there was a highlands and lowlands and a lot of artistic form around the growing of the agave, the fermentation, the distillation. And I was absolutely fascinated. And I think luckily for me, just in that time period, there was a prodigious disconnect between the U.S. and Mexico with Mexico being very much a cash-based society of what are we doing today as a relationship transaction versus long-term corporate planning and performance and what are we going to do the next 5, 10, 15 years on credit basis. And so that's where the consulting really began was understanding the differences between the two countries, how I could actually make a living in the tequila space through importation or showing people the vertical. And eventually it just morphed into my wife and I doing it for ourselves. and doing our own brands.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: How hard is it? You see Ryan Reynolds or other celebrities getting into the beverage industry. How hard is it for someone to get a tequila brand going?

Ken MacKenzie: I would probably put it right up against joining the NBA. It's not an easy space to be involved with longevity, meaning that I think I was especially fortunate to come in at a time where, you know, I think that when we grew up, it was really, the U.S. was a place where it was mixed-dough shots and margaritas, and there was no in-between ground. Whereas we've discovered over the course of time that Mexico used it quite often as very much like we used vodka as a mixer. which is where a lot of the Blanca Plata tequila is utilized, as well as Aging in Barrels for Reposado and Yeho Extra and Yeho. But the point being that when you look at this and how it's evolved, there's so many tequila brands now where It was very limited back in the 90s and early 2000s, and the US was still learning about the space and what it actually represented. Not the tequila nightmare from college where, hey, I can't even smell it anymore. Don't get that gold bottle in front of me. But wow, this is very complex. There's a lot that goes into this. I want to learn more about where it comes from. And as that continued to mature as an industry, you had a lot more entrance. And so, you know, last year there was over 500 new registered brands down in Mexico with the CRT. So it's a rich tapestry really of understanding the production side south of the border, as well as the importation and distribution and retail aspects. of the industry.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: And how did you educate yourself?

Ken MacKenzie: Ooh, it really was to a great degree, uh, banging my head against the wall. So it was just through trial and error and experience. You know, I was really fortunate in the sense that my wife's family had some great contacts. And so I was able to learn a lot in a relatively short period of time. I'd say a year and a half to two years where, um, I had a better understanding of the, potential problems that could use solutions or solving for. That's always a great place to start. But the reality is, no matter how you come up and learn, the only way to actually get to where you need to be is through practical experience and actually living through it. And I had some real disappointments along with some very gratifying, you know, rewarding experiences as well. And so it's, you know, it's one of those things where I would say if there's one word I would attach to this entrepreneur journey, it's really perseverance.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Okay. I love that. And, and, you know, so these disappointing times, you know, helped, helped kind of solidify that person for perseverance in you. But when did you flip the switch? What was the aha moment to go and do your own tequila brand? After you had, you know, educated yourself and you were consulting and helping other beverage, I assume other beverage brands get, you know, launching to the United States and go through the regulatory process, those kinds of things. When did you go, oh, I should do my own tequila brand?

Ken MacKenzie: It was a very natural progression over time. It was doing it and understanding it well enough where we were kind of thinking to ourselves, why are we showing everybody how to do this? It's almost like an algebraic formula of here are the steps you need to take and they're static. You have to do these things or you're not able to complete the venture. And after doing it over and over again, I think one thing that occurs or at least occurred to us was, this is something we feel that we could do. We're in Guadalajara, we're also in the Bay Area, so that's a great place to be as far as a state that has a big populace and is a great tequila or cocktail drinking state. And we should get our own feet wet. And it's, you know, in many ways, it's a lot more rewarding to do it yourself because you you're kind of owning it and you're driving the the car, if you will, but in another way, it's a lot more responsibility and a lot more, you know, you don't close the laptop at six and go, okay, I can go do the next thing. It's really one of those situations where you're all in. and it takes up a good chunk of your time in your life and you have to be prepared for that. So you just have to psychologically get ready for, hey, there's gonna be a lot of ups and a lot of downs. These kinds of businesses to a great degree can be very manic in the sense that, man, you get the highest highs when stuff works and it's clicking, you're like, wow, this is incredible. And then you can get some real lows when product doesn't show up and people are upset and where is this and where is that? So if you're not kind of able to keep on that even keel of, hey, I realize that this is going to be very much up and down. It's hard to wake up every day and say, hey, I'm really excited to do this.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: And so before you started your own tequila brand, when you were consulting, were you working for another company or was that your own company, your consulting company?

Ken MacKenzie: I had my own consulting company for a number of years and it was easy. The disconnect at the time, at least in the late nineties, between what was happening actually down in Mexico with what they were doing down there as far as growing and production versus importation and distribution in a three-tier system up here was very much separated. And so there was a lot of great dialogue to be had. as far as kind of putting the puzzle pieces together and putting people together and also kind of showing the path to, hey, just so you know, this is actually what it takes. It's not just about doing, you know, this part. It's about doing these three parts in succession. And it feels great to be able to show people things and to actually have a working understanding of something. But ultimately, like most things in life, I suppose, if you feel like you have a grasp or something or you're doing it relatively well, you want to do it for yourself.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Okay. And you were you were doing the consulting for yourself. So you sort of had the idea already that, you know, you can't shut the laptop off at six o'clock. But then when you started your tequila brand, did you stop consulting a resort of doing both?

Ken MacKenzie: No, I stopped because it was all consuming. It's, you know, it's one of those things where you really can't shut the laptop off at six and you need to be available at all times. And you realize that a series of kind of fire drills come up that you weren't experiencing when it wasn't actually you, but you were just kind of advising it. B it becomes a huge facet of your life. And. The circumstances around it are very unique in the sense that as things unfold, you realize that there's a whole myriad of different things that you never even thought about unless you were in the middle of it. Like, you know, the buy and sell side, the logistics side, the account side with marketing. and how you want to stay relevant and how you want to make sure to win business and keep winning business and new placements while making sure that your depletions and the old ones, you know, maintain. And so there's a lot of things on that control panel that you don't necessarily have to deal with day in and day out when you're strictly advising.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Okay. So, and, and I love how involved you've been in the industry and the spirits and food and beverage industry. And. Being that involved is, is one way that you've learned a lot of the, you know, tricks of the trade or whatever, what, what you need to do to make something work before you started your tequila brand. But it was at an industry event, I believe you were giving a seminar. And one of the people in the audience said something like, you know, customers don't want to wait for someone to spend 10 minutes, six minutes, 10 minutes, whatever to make a customized cocktail. Right. And that was your aha moment for Fresh Victor. Is that correct?

Ken MacKenzie: I think that when you hear something over and over again, when it's validated from different touch points, if you will, it sticks in your mind. And for me, at least, one of the things that I was experiencing is we kind of rode that wave of, hey, 100% agave tequila is this brilliant product as far as it can be used in a variety of ways. And one of our favorite ways is as a mixer, you know, Blanco tequila really with the sweetness of the agave and everything else lends itself to all sorts of cocktail choices. You know, just you've seen tequila and tonic and, you know, tequila and soda and margaritas and all sorts of citrus based cocktails and all the things that can be done with it. And as I was kind of going from national account to national account or through the various distributors, One of the things I would do is build a cocktail and show them, Hey, this is how versatile this is. Look at this. And they go, Oh, wow. You know, it's a amazing cocktail, but it, you know, took you five or six minutes to build that. And who's going to sit around and wait for that. That's an aha moment because it feels like a backhanded compliment. I love the cocktail, but didn't like the way you made it at all. For the time it took you to make it, right? Right. Yeah. And it's kind of like, Hey, I don't know another way to do this. And one of the things that one of the distributors had said to me is, man, if you could find a cheat code, like if you could do exactly what you did, but do it in 20 seconds. And that created a conversation in and of itself. You know, that was like me saying, Hey, I've never really been at one of my own dinner parties. Cause I'm always behind the bar all night, you know, making drinks for people. But the good news is everybody keeps coming to the bar. So I'm talking to everybody. I'm just not sitting and eating. Wouldn't it be cool if you could sit neat because you were batching cocktails or you had kind of this first four or five steps taken care of for you prior to having to build the, the individual drinks. So I thought about that for a while and it was a great idea. And I thought it would be easy. It seems like it is on the surface, especially if you're just dealing with three or four ingredients. But the reality was I could do it really well or really effectively in my kitchen at home because I've got this. And then when Kyle, I wanted to take it to commercial production, like actually do a run. It took me a good 18 months. to figure out like every time we did it, I was like, that's not it. It doesn't match up. And I realized very quickly, this is difficult to do. And I get it because if it was easy, it wouldn't have been done before or wouldn't there be a lot of competition. So we dug in and you know, that's been one of the most rewarding things in my career is Tequila really gave us a life for many years that was extremely rewarding. But this product, Fresh Victor, is especially rewarding in the sense that it's a broad market proposition. You can use it in different ways. You can use it with alcohol, with spirits, with wine for sangria, with sparkling for mimosas. You can use it with non-alc to make low-cal soft drinks or agua frescas. And so suddenly, the world really opens up. It's not just are you buying tequila today? It's Hey, you can use this a bunch of different ways.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Yeah, let's talk about the difficulties, though, of getting this, getting this going. Because I mean, it's in your name, right? Fresh. So you have fresh ingredients. It's probably very difficult to keep that thing fresh for a long period of time.

Ken MacKenzie: So Now we're getting on to hardships and yes, the barriers to entry into this type of industry are really very huge because first of all, if you haven't done it before, you have a hypothesis, but you don't have any data to back it up. And so you're dealing with fresh ingredients, you're blending stuff together. And then you're saying, okay, a, this needs to be refrigerated. So it's cold chain. We're not used to that in tequila. We're at ambient temperature. So, you know, for us, I'm used to dealing with, you know, three tier distributors and, you know, mostly wine and spirits distributors across the country. This wasn't that same type of play. And so the learnings from that were really hard. I mean, they were honestly, if you want to talk about being kept up at night, months and months and months, if not years, like it was just, it was really, really difficult. And when we started, we didn't know what the shelf life could truly be. We knew coming from tequila and fermentation and distillation that what we were working against was these ingredients in a bottle. We don't want them to ferment. We want them to remain intact. And so one piece of good news in this hypothesis was, hey, we know that if it's kept cold, the fresh pressed citrus is acidic enough where it should be relatively stable. You know, this isn't going to be a huge issue, we think. But not, we know we think. And so when I first Kyle launched this thing, we were marking the bottles at 42 days from data production. Well, you barely make it to the distributor in the first two weeks. Like, you know, it, that, that didn't work very well. And heartbreakingly, I was pouring out probably as much as we were selling. So. At from the onset in the beginning I was like hey I don't know this models kind of upside down like I don't know how much as we continue to do shelf life studies and really examine how this held up under refrigeration at 38 to 42 degrees. We realized that, hey, it doesn't really go bad. It fades. Of course, like anything fresh, the citrus just fades on you. It doesn't have as much zing or pop or these sorts of things. But it was good for twice that shelf life. We were much more at three to four months of shelf life, as long as you kept it cold. So that was a huge turning point. But these learnings, you know, it takes a lot of time, a lot of effort, capitalization, you know, the ability to stay in market to maintain good relationships with distributors, have the manufacturing in a place where you know that you can depend on it and scale it. There's a lot of variables.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Wow. So how many times did you want to quit?

Ken MacKenzie: I mean, out loud, none, none. I will say, you know, you have days that fade together and you look at them and you realize over the years, like, wow, like when I launched this thing, my younger daughter was one and she, you know, she's nine now. And so. You think to yourself, Hey, I had some really hard days or some really bad days where I was like, I'm not sure if we're going to get, be able to get past this. And I think with age and wisdom and maturity and everything else, you know, you look at all the mistakes you've made in the past or how you could have done things better or differently or whatever. And you come to realize that if you have the right product and the right people around you. you'll navigate, you'll figure it out. Sometimes it can feel like you're being torn apart, but you figure it out because there are ways to continue to build something. That cold chain thing, refrigerated distribution versus ambient, I don't think I even realized way back when, When I talked about doing a fresh mixer or a cold chain mixer, a lot of my colleagues or distributors or even customers would say, is there any way you can make it shelf stable? And I say, yeah, but it won't be good. I mean, that's a totally different proposition. I can do a shelf stable, but we've all grown up with shelf stable. Like the thing I didn't want was the neon green, cloudy, high fructose, you know, citric acid, you know, all the things that I was trying to do clean label, non-GMO, kosher, preservative free, low calorie, you know, all the things that I really was chasing after to realize the dream. It's really hard to realize the dream and it takes a lot longer than you think to Kyle. That's the other thing I would tell your listeners is it's that 10 year overnight success story. Right. So, you know, you have something special. You, I mean, your family kind of reacted to it the way I had hoped that, you know, most people that I, you know, put it in front of go, Oh, wow, this is amazing. But that doesn't translate to success because you have to scale that over and over and over and over and get up every day and do the same thing and tell the same story. And there's so much that goes into this. And so it's almost like a stage play, if you will, because if I'm out with a customer, I'm saying the same thing I said yesterday and last month and last year, verbatim.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Yeah.

Ken MacKenzie: And they're loving it, but it's the first time I've been there. And so for them, it's the first time they saw this play and they want it to be just as good as opening day. So there's a lot of responsibility that goes into it. There's so much joy that comes from it. Like, you know, my kids wear Fresh Victor sweatshirts. Like they just love the brand. They love the llama. They love the community and the things that we started out the podcast with. the fact that it can be used for celebrating, it can be used for sharing, for breaking bread, for having dinners, for all these, going to the beach, by the pool, all these wonderful things. And that's what makes me proud and really keeps me going day after day.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: That's awesome. And that mindset of perseverance is what got you through those hard times, really, just having that mindset.

Ken MacKenzie: Having that mindset and having to remind yourself over and over, I lose it sometimes. I lose perspective. And that perseverance that I'm so good at giving advice to others about, like, hey, I've been there, I've done that, you know, listen, you'll get there. So every once in a while, I can have an hour or two straight where I'm like, what is happening? Like, what do I have to do to hit a reset button? But just know, and as I have said to my kids, what you're feeling in this moment, you're not going to be feeling a week from now, a month from now. It's going to be a very different circumstance. Even tomorrow morning will be different. So you just have to remind yourself about the macro or the bigger picture, because that's what is important about the build. It's not what happened today. It's what happens along a string of days, weeks, months, years. If you can keep the same messaging and you believe in it just as much as you always did, there's something to it.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: I love that advice. Let's talk about the brand for a second. So fresh, obviously, these are fresh mixers, but where does Victor come from? And where does the, let's talk about the llama a little bit.

Ken MacKenzie: The first word we wanted people to read on the label was fresh. We wanted people to have a working understanding that this should be different than what you're used to. I personally feel coming from the industry that mixers always had a really bad name. attached to them. And this is through growing up, like in the 70s, 80s, 90s, you put a lot of pride in your spirit choices or your wine choices. But mixers were an afterthought. It was like, well, just, you know, pick up that one that, you know, looks terrible and tastes terrible, but at least it mixes. There wasn't a whole lot of opportunity to, you know, grow the field or feel like they were really, really different from what you're using, unless you were doing it from scratch. And so for me. I wanted people to feel like there was a stark contrast in what we were doing right away. Like, hey, this is in the refrigerator. Why? You know, it says fresh. Victor is really in reference to you're the victor. It's a victory for you. you're getting a fresh victory, like you're winning now. We want to make sure that we got you there. And this was something for us that was very much akin to that celebrating facet of finally, you know, something that you can be proud to serve, that whether it's on premise at a restaurant, bar, casino, cruise ship, hotel, resort, you know, wherever you're going to drink it outside, nightclub, you can be proud to say, hey, this is a Fresh Victor cocktail. This is fresh and we're mixing it the right way. At home, the exact same thing, the kind of community that we want to build around this, it's almost like a party. We want to be able to say, hey, you can be at home and have dinner parties or Christmas or Hanukkah or Halloween or whatever you're doing. And serve this, the Mexican lime or the cactus pear or the three citrus and mint or whatever, and have your guests go, hey, that was really good. What did you do? How did you do that? And you just say, hey, here's the secret. It's just this. We grabbed a bottle of this. That's special to us. And then the llama is very much kind of adjacent to that party aspect. When I say party, what I kind of mean is the celebratory feeling of being with family and friends, knowing that you're kind of in a warm space and that you guys are enjoying the conversations. A llama is a very social pack animal. And when my wife and I were in Peru, we were absolutely amazed in Lima and Cusco and other cities where we would have these amazing lunches or dinners like comidas that were 12, 13 courses over three and a half, four hours. And you don't hear they're trying to turn over the table before you sit down. They're like, how long are you going to be? There, they're like, hey, you're ours for the day. So buckle up. And what we noticed was the culinary aspects of the society very much mirrored the mixology aspects. They were both just so well executed against. And llamas were literally walking up to the restaurants with packs on them with fresh fruit that were being taken off, washed and crushed. And we went that now that's something that's not a I'm opening a can, you know, whatever. It's like, hey, this it doesn't get fresher than this. And, you know, in a very puerile or elementary way for me growing up in the Bay Area, I also wanted something that could be really iconic. You know, when you think about mascots, when you think about symbols, when you think about things, what we all strive for is something that's instantly recognizable. Like you walk down a supermarket or a liquor store shelf or whatever, and you go, oh, I know what that is. Much like, you know, Tony Tiger. You know what that is. Whether you eat it or you don't eat it, you know what it is. Yeah, that's what we wanted. Lastly, what I'll say about the llama that I really love, it's a conversation piece. So I love the fact that people walk up to me all the time going, what's the deal with the camel? What's the deal with the alpaca? What's going on with that llama? Because one of the elementary things in consumer products is you want that dialogue to occur. You want the curiosity. You want to be able to tell a story. You want to be able to get that engagement of, hey, I'm interested in this. Whether they buy it or not, you want them to know about it. So those are kind of the things that go into the branding as far as saying we want this to be a recognizable kind of first to category prospect where people can be really proud to pick it up in the market or the liquor store and say, hey, I didn't cut any corners. I made an exceptional cocktail, but I did it in a much easier way.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: That's great. I love the brand. The brand is is as maybe the kids maybe back in the day said it's fresh. Yeah, brand for sure. And so did you come up with the different flavors yourself? Were some of these yours? Or do you have a team working on these or? How did that, how did the flavors come together?

Ken MacKenzie: They come from the actual tequila industry, owning tequila brands, knowing what cocktails were sought after, especially on premise for the most part. So if you have restaurants and bars, if you see them doing a three citrus margarita, or you see them utilizing prickly pear or a spicy margarita or rum rita or whatever, you think to yourself, okay, what ingredients go into the broader cocktail offerings first and foremost. And then secondly, and this is very important, I wanted to create things that were a little bit more difficult or a little bit more of an annoyance to bartenders and mixologists to say, hey, you know, I'm not really excited to crush jalapenos or to work with prickly pear or to figure out the ginger ratio with the pineapple. You know, these aspects meant, you know, all things that good mixologists and bartenders are very adept at. But it's a lot easier to sell something in when you can sell it in with absolute freshness, consistency, and the ability to say, wouldn't you like to take this step away from yourself? And the same thing was occurring at home. If you're trying to make spicy things at home or you're trying to balance, I consider mixology a lot like baking. I think the ratios are very important. And so when you're just eyeing it or you're just, you know, kind of winging it, if you will, you can make good stuff. But the reality is when somebody can already take the measurements and the ratios and the consistency and the freshness and all the things that you want for your drinks. and have them available to you in a bottle, that's a great business proposition. And so I really predicated the flavors off of what I had seen the last 10, 15 years in the industry on-premise and knowing that I wanted to use some ingredients that maybe are a little bit more difficult to use on the fly and make life easier for people. You know, spicy is great because people gravitate towards that. I mean, they either really do or they really don't. But to be able to have offerings like this where we're like, hey, these are a little bit more unique and they marry with everything. You know, vodka, rum, gin, tequila, whiskey, mezcal, wine for sangria, beer for shandies. You know, you can really take whatever you have at home or whatever you're buying in the store that day and mix it with Fresh Victor. And so that's kind of the flavor profiles. I have a lot more ideas, but the reality is, When you have nine flavors and two bottle sizes, that's 18 SKUs. That's 18 form factors. So distributors aren't hoping that Ken comes up with new ideas or iterates on it. They're hoping that I say, okay, let's pull two back and let's introduce two new ones. And you know, that kind of thing.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Yeah, so this was so well thought through, but that was from your 10 to 20 years of consulting and being in spirits, right? I mean, that's how you were able to think very carefully and strategically through these choices.

Ken MacKenzie: We just, you know, for me, Kyle, we had done a stint for five or six years in Austin, in Texas, and With our tequila brand there, these were things, especially kind of in the Southwest, I was noticing, you know, three citrus was really hot. Prickly pear was really hot. Spicy jalapeno or habanero was really hot. These were all things that were working and people were drinking two or three drinks at a time. And so those were the kind of easier things for me. The other ones are probably no-brainers to a certain degree, like grapefruit and sea salt. You just think Paloma or salty dog, like, you know, instantly you go towards, that makes sense. Mexican lime and agave, margaritas, daiquiris, that makes sense. Lemon sour, absolutely. You know, spiked lemonades, whiskey sours, you know, these sorts of things. Cucumber has been kind of big since like 2018, 19. It's not always easy, especially if you're using fresh ingredients to nail these types of ratios. They can differ, especially when you're dealing with fresh produce. And so the thing that I really like about our system is as we're doing everything at the production facility, we can really balance not only the formulations week over week, but the pH and everything else to make sure it's exactly like the week before. And that's super helpful. Cause if you're crushing, you know, if you're squeezing limes and adding sweeteners and, you know, using fresh vegetables and the such, it can really range from week to week, month to month, depending on the crops.

null: Okay.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: It's a lot to consider your business. So it's amazing. I love the stories you've shared. I love your talking about perseverance. I've just got a few more questions that we can wrap up. This has been so much fun. I'm sure we could talk for hours and hours about this and all your experience and advice for entrepreneurs. I wanted to ask you, what is the most significant misconception people have about spirit-free or non-alcoholic drinks?

Ken MacKenzie: I would say that what comes to mind right away for me is the real gap between generations, meaning that younger people are tending not to drink as much alcohol. They're going for no alcohol whatsoever or low alcohol, or even more, probably more spirits, like high-end spirits than they are just beer and wine as a mid-offering. So that all being said, I think one of the biggest misconceptions is crafting drinks should have a huge difference in pricing due to whether there's alcohol in there or not alcohol. And I would contend that this is much more an art form, that if you're building a mocktail, It can be just as complex as a cocktail. We've put a real misnomer on, hey, alcohol makes this much more valuable. I got to pay a lot more for this drink because I'm getting booze in it. And the reality is you're buying an experience. So if we're still crushing and muddling and, you know, adding, you know, various ingredients to this drink, it's not, you know, kind of your father's soft drink or even a Shirley temple or something like that, where you're just pouring grenadine into a seven up it's, it's, you know, got six ingredients in it and it's handcrafted. And so I'm very much in favor. from the beverage perspective on the whole, that people should drink exactly what they want and like to drink. And it shouldn't make any difference if it's alcohol or non-alcohol, you know, this is an equal playing field. And so it just becomes a making a standard of, okay, if the alcohol does cost more, which is probably nominal, charge 16 to 18, but a mocktail should still probably be somewhere between 12 and 16. You know, it should still be up there because the art and the efforts put into it.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: And we talked about on our intro call that there are bars now that are completely alcohol free. In San Francisco, where else? Where else can you find these? Do you find these in other cities?

Ken MacKenzie: Oh, absolutely. You can find them in Austin and Miami and Boston and New York. I mean, these things are popping up all over the place. It's not something that I think that any of us would have seen 10 or 15 years ago. You know, it's not an expectation, but I'm, you know, it's the world's really changed. And for me, you know, I talk about this all the time when walking into my grandparents' house at any given time, the garage fridge was filled with Coca-Cola and Hawaiian punch. You know, that it was just an expectation. Well, my kids are drinking half gallons of water. You know, they can't even relate to like, hey, you're gonna, what are you doing? Midday, you're doing what? So from that aspect, you really look at it from where are trends leading and going and health, you know, this is one of the great things about Fresh Victor is being clean label. You wanna be able to have your offerings really reflect what people want in 2025. And I think there's absolutely and will always be absolutely room for both. I think that the these trends are cyclical. People will come back to cocktails. I'm never, you know, worried like, oh, no, this is going away. Not at all. I think that trends, especially in 5 to 10 year increments can can. you'll see waves of things. And right now that's exactly what we're experiencing it. So I think you'll see it more and more. And Kyle, 25%, 30% of my ask when we're building menus for restaurants and bars and clubs and casinos and such, they're asking for mocktails. They're asking for recipes for our alternatives that they can offer their patrons to say, hey, if you don't want to be drinking, that's absolutely fine. We've got this too.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: That's awesome. And I love your website. So freshvictor.com, you can actually buy the product there. There's also tons of examples of different kind of mocktails or cocktails that you can make with the different mixers.

Ken MacKenzie: Yeah, absolutely. And this is exactly what this is intended to do. You know, I love the fact that when you're dealing with fresh and you're dealing with the kinds of things that we offer, you're absolutely able to mix it with whatever you like in the sense that it does, it is designed to go with any spirit, but man, some of my, you know, uh, most surprising times have been people that have come to me and they said, hey, I just tried this out as a mocktail. Check this out. And I'll go, hey, I never, you steep the green tea how long? And what are you doing here? And it's really cool to see how culinary this is. And of course, my wife does this a lot. We use the jalapeno lime for ceviche, the Mexican lime and agave for marinating carne asada, the pineapple and ginger for shrimp and fish on the grill. There's a lot of really cool aspects to being able to use a fresh product. And I'm just super excited to see over the next five years how people use it.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Yeah, it's super exciting. I'm excited to see, see that as well. So Ken, I just wanted to ask you, do you consider yourself more of a maker or a manager?

Ken MacKenzie: Wow, I don't, I don't. No one's ever asked me that before. First of all, that's the pause. I like to be thoughtful about my responses. You take a lot of pride in the creation, like the creation, the formulations in the creation, you take a lot of pride in because it really is that trial and error. And it's like going to, it's like going to a long, very, very difficult class that you finally complete. and you have a sense of accomplishment. Like, hey, it works. Or, hey, we finally got to the point where we have it in a bottle and you can see it on the shelf. That creator or maker thing never goes away. You always take a tremendous amount of pride in that because it's kind of your baby. It's your child. It's something that you nurture from inception or even from, you know, the thought process of how are we going to do this all the way to execution of getting it out there? The manager part is probably in a lot of ways, I talked about how hard it was to make the products. The management part is really a completely different skill set where it's like, man, navigating those waters is what's going to cause more stress because when you're creating there's a real level of optimism and, you know, anything's possible. And so you feel like, Hey, this is going to be so amazing. And then when you're managing, that's where all the hard balls are thrown at you. And you got to see what you're made of. And you got to say, cause it's, it's not about the product. It's not about, you know, A lot of those variables we talked about, it's about how you persevere and maintain through that. And so I'd say both are really relevant and necessary skill sets to have. You really do need to have both if you're going to create something. But the management side is where I'd put some more critical thinking behind. how you're going to execute against your plan and how you're going to scale your product in a very saturated market space where there may be a lot of in-kind competition or there may be a lot of obstacles thrown up your way because of the way that you've decided that you're going to insist on doing things. So you're a mixture of both. I'm a mixture of both by necessity. I'm not sure. I wonder in retrospect, if I could have picked one or the other effectively, it's just seeing everything all the way through. Right. And, and, and so you're constantly in that creative, you know, Hey, maker mode of telling your story and why you do what you do. So that always sticks very close to you. But man, that managerial side of execution is, is everything as you're building your business.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: For sure. Very critical. So I just have a lightning round of questions just to get to know you a little bit better. Your favorite candy bar?

Ken MacKenzie: Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Favorite music artist?

Ken MacKenzie: Oh God, I would have to go back to Led Zeppelin. Favorite cereal? You're asking a lot of hard questions. I mentioned Tony Tiger, so I'd be remiss to go against him at this point. But yeah, growing up, definitely that was a staple.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Frosted Flakes, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Mac or PC? Now Mac. Google or Microsoft? Google. Dogs or cats? Dogs. Three. Phantom or Les Mis? Les Mis. All right. And the last question I have for you, what's the Worst thing about being an entrepreneur and what's the best thing about being an entrepreneur?

Ken MacKenzie: The best thing? Okay, let's start with the worst thing. The worst thing about being an entrepreneur will be what it takes you away from. You have a real obligation to the people that have helped you build this and you need to be omnipresent. You need to be there and the buck stops with you. And so whether I'm doing tastings on Saturday afternoons at Total Wine & More or I'm out presenting to some weird account at 9.30 at night on a Wednesday, you're always thinking this way. And it does take you away from, you know, you time, you know, hey, I'd like to read a book, I'd like to, you know, spend extra time with the family, or, you know, travel takes me away to open up new distributorships, or new account opportunities, or whatever else. what I'm saying about the bad parts of being an entrepreneur, also the greatest parts about being an entrepreneur, because you're actually accomplishing something out in the world. And when your family recognizes that, when your daughters, your wife say, I'm so extremely proud of you, or this product is so amazing, I'm going to share it with friends or whatever else, you feel like I've really done something. This is really special, or this is unique to us. And that, you that feeling, you know, there's nothing like it. It's that manic thing, right? Like, you know, you can be missing something and loving something at the same time. It's totally worth it is what I'm trying to say. But you have to have the right family, the right support system, the right advisors and board members and people around you in order to get it right. And that does not come easily. That's not something you can just say, hey, I can create this in a weekend. It's trial and error, it's failures, it's being able to persevere. And at the end of the day, it's finding balance where you can say it's not absolutely one way or the other. You have to find that balance that works for everybody. And once you find that balance, life's really good.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: I love those answers. Thank you so much for being generous with your time today, Ken. You mentioned reading a book. Is there a book that you recommend the most to people?

Ken MacKenzie: Oh, gosh. I mean, I feel like I haven't been able to read a book in like a decade because I'm always out trying to do stuff. You know, even more than reading a book because I'm on planes or I'm in cars or doing everything else, I would probably answer you, Kyle, by saying there's a tremendous amount of podcasts like yourself. that you can garner a lot from. Hearing these founders' experiences, hearing about what it takes to actually build a company, what it takes to maintain the good, the bad, the ugly. It's such a shift, right? It's such a cultural shift because growing up, that's exactly what my parents recommended I do is, hey, read this or read that or figure this out. And now it's, Hey, in 45 minutes, I can just put headphones in and I can basically get a summary version of a really good business book read to me. And then I take, I get off the plane and I go that, you know, I'm going to take three things from that and try to use them.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: I love it. Do you have, do you have a recommended podcast that people could check out?

Ken MacKenzie: Well, definitely yours.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: I will.

Ken MacKenzie: Thank you.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: Any others that you, you listen to on the, on the regular?

Ken MacKenzie: Yeah. Tim Ferriss. I mean, there, there's a lot of, um, that come up in my feeds all the time. And I also Dan Dunn, um, you know, in the beverage industry, that's a fantastic one. Like, you know, a lot of it is unpacking. what you want to know about the most as far as what can be applied to you and whether it's hospitality or beverage. I really recommend that if you're at Spotify or Apple or whatever else, that you just kind of put in the keywords that you're most interested in and filter it from there. Because there's a lot of them that I probably don't even remember off the top of my head what they're called, but I'll get specific episodes because the keywords hit. And I'll go, oh, wow, I never would have found that unless I had done it this way. But you can take a lot away from it because you're actually hearing these founders either tell you the same things over and over again because they're common threads or give you really unique perspectives on, man, I'll never do that again. Or, you know, this is the absolute way that I hit that home run. And so I'm constantly looking for new stuff too. Yeah, Dan Dunn, especially in the beverage space, is a really interesting character as far as being able to describe hospitality, beverages, and a number of celebrities going on there to retell stories and common experiences.

Kyle Ariel Knowles: I love your advice about listening to podcasts. I think it's a great way to learn. Next week, I will have interviewed 50 entrepreneurs to make the manager money. Learned and been inspired from every one of you and especially yours, Ken, today. So thanks for being so generous with your time. and I appreciate everything that you've shared with the audience. Go to freshvictor.com and order some of these mixers. You can also get them at Whole Foods. I know they're in Whole Foods now and you're expanding. You're mostly in the West right now, but there are other places that you can purchase Fresh Victor. So thank you again, Ken.

Ken MacKenzie: Thank you, Kyle. I had a great time. Thanks for having me on.